CCI Drive Time
CCI Drive Time is a practical, no-fluff podcast you can listen to between sales calls—real conversations about CCI products, the laundromat business, and how to sell smarter while you’re on the road.
CCI Drive Time
Value Beyond the Equipment: Michael Ambrose on Modern Laundry Distribution
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Five years after his previous podcast appearance, Michael Ambrose of Western State Design joins Steve Marcionetti to talk about what has changed in the laundry industry—and what hasn’t.
With more than 25 years of experience spanning hotel laundry operations, chemicals, equipment distribution, laundromat ownership and brokerage, Michael brings a unique perspective on nearly every side of the business.
In this episode, Michael and Steve discuss how technology and AI are changing the way prospective owners research opportunities, while also making the real-world experience—or “tribal knowledge”—of a great distributor more valuable than ever. Michael explains why he believes distributors should be more than equipment salespeople and why providing value before, during and especially after the sale is critical to building long-term customer relationships.
They also explore Michael’s experience with Western State Design as part of EVI Industries, the continued consolidation of laundry distribution, and why the people behind a distributorship ultimately matter as much as the brands they represent.
Michael also shares how becoming a laundromat owner changed his own perspective. His advice is simple: keep “touching” the business. Continue reinvesting, improve something customers can see, stay involved in the community, maintain good records and never assume a successful laundromat can simply be left alone.
The conversation also covers payment technology, the importance of verifiable business data when buying or selling a laundromat, and Deal Rinse, a new platform Michael is involved with designed to help buyers, sellers, brokers and distributors research and evaluate laundry opportunities.
Most importantly, Michael shares why sometimes the best thing a salesperson can do is tell a customer not to buy—because building a successful long-term relationship is far more valuable than simply closing the next deal.
It’s a conversation about service, relationships, technology and what great laundry distribution should look like today.
Welcome to CCI Drivetime, the podcast for vended laundry distributors. I'm Steve with CCI using your drivetime to cover laundromat trends, payment systems, and practical topics you can use in the field. Today I sat down with Michael Ambrose, who is a laundry specialist over at Western State Design, and he covers the Los Angeles, Northern Los Angeles market. I've known Michael for many years. He's an excellent example of, again, doing distribution right. And one of the reasons I wanted him on the show, we talked a lot about value and how bringing value is really what a distributor is. If we're going to separate ourselves from just being um uh channels to move iron to uh uh people who serve their customers and provide real value, that's where the distributor fits in. And he's a great example of that and shared um examples of that in this conversation. So here we go with Michael Ambrose. Michael, great to see you. How are you doing today? Doing excellent. Thank you. How about yourself around over on that side of the world? That's right. Yeah, I'm doing great. It's doing great. This is um you and I have been working on this for a couple of weeks. I'm excited to finally get a chance to have this conversation. Um, you know, I I I looked back at your interview with Jordan Barry, I think close to five years ago. Um was you know, you've got COVID. Yeah, uh you and you and he had uh you know a really great conversation about all things laundry. Um and so I I I I want to circle back after five years and kind of not only just kind of maybe reintroduced to anybody that maybe hasn't seen that podcast, but I don't want to revisit everything that you guys talked about. I want to talk about what's changed in five years. It feels like everything's changed, right? Uh in in some regards, and then maybe some things haven't. So, you know, again, why don't we start by you just telling us, you know, Michael, how you got in this business? I know because we've chatted about and I watched the interview, but your background wasn't always laundry and you didn't always live in Southern California. So get how do you how did you end up uh in the laundry business? The early stages of college.
SPEAKER_01I uh I had a I early stages of college, I ended up going to hotel administration, going through hotel, but that's a whole story before that story. But we'll just go from I ended up in hotel administration working for Hyatt Hotels, and I traveled around from Monterey, Atlanta, Knoxville, Chicago was downtown at the uh um high what was uh McCormick Place. It was McCormick Place. I was there for a while, and then um it was at McCormick Place that I had a uh a uh rooms exec who wanted me to go into laundry. No, actually, it was before that. Sorry about that. It was in Knoxville, and she wanted me to go to laundry, and I was like, there's no way I'm going to laundry. I don't know. I'm I'm going straight up the top. I'm gonna be the youngest journal manager in this company. Um I'll spit fire. The world, the world is mine, I'm gonna conquer the world. And she basically took me by the ear, shoved me into the laundry manager's office and said, Welcome to your new job. And that's literally, she did touch my ear, I think, and take me into the office. And that was 1999. I've been doing laundry ever since, and it evolved into uh hotel operations, and then I was a uh worked for a um a soap company out here uh on the central coast and um do back of the house operations and helped sell soap and dish machines and uh just kind of like you know, Ecolab. Um they service the restaurant and uh business, but I was with uh uh an independent name Aquasystems. So I learned back-of-the-house operations really well, and I had been doing it in operations, and then um I met some people on the distribution side, and uh over some time I ended up um coming along to uh Western State Design about 11 years ago. And so I've been there ever since. But I've kind of gone from an operator standpoint to um the soap side, um, the chemical side of things, and then now the equipment side. But I I spent 15 years, good 15 years non-biased to equipment, and now I sell equipment, but the whole time I was learning about equipment because as a soap guy, like when something's wrong with the equipment, they they call you in because you come in for free. Like they charge anybody else in and they ask me my opinion because I'm non-biased and I see everything. So and I've been doing it for about 25 years, and equipment's typically 12 to 15 years plus. So, and I've been in the same spot for the more or less. I've been able to see everything turn at least once. Um, and it's been very educational to have those various sides of the industry also uh all around laundry into my position now, which has evolved into um I work with uh Cal Laundry Ventures and uh work with Scott Steinberg, and he is a dynamic uh broker in Southern California. So I'm working with him and help people buy and sell laundromats as well. And then I've got a part-time gig. A part-time on top of all that, yeah. I I've got a part-time gig, is uh I've been well trusted over the years, and uh there's uh some local operators and operators uh in Southern California that when they go out of town, they actually have me watch their laundromats for them. And I'm done for a holiday weekend all the way up to 21 days for laundromats for uh a gentleman that I actually work with.
SPEAKER_02That's actually really that's uh that's really creative because you know we think about the store business being one that it can be I I we're never gonna use the word on this podcast um um uh passive, but it it is it is one that um you can get away from a little bit, but you can only get away from it for a certain amount of time before things need to be taken care of, pulling the money, you know, all that stuff. And so, you know, as a card system, we always tout all of the benefits of having all that kind of accounted for and reduce some of the collections, but you've taken a pretty interesting approach that hey, I'll just take care of it for you while you go on vacation, while you go out of town, while you travel. So, you know, that's uh that's a that's a really creative approach to dealing with anybody that maybe wants to get away for uh a bit of time and maybe doesn't have family or a trusted employee that uh that they want to leave the keys to.
SPEAKER_01It's it's a cash business. So uh people who trust me and my kids, I get my kids fully involved into it. Yeah. Give them a chance to make some money too and show them how the show them the business. So they've been great for quite some time now.
SPEAKER_02And you know what? I I I'm as as you're telling me that, and I'm repeating it back to you, I'm reminded of a couple of other um interviews that I've done over the last few months, talking to people who've been in the distribution business for years, and how do you and trying to help? I'm trying to drag out of them how do you get a new person? Think about yourself back when you first started like, how do you, even before you even knew what laundry was from the perspective that we're talking about it today, how do you get a distributor up to speed in it? And some of the recommendations have been well, open a laundry, you know, buy, you know, buy a laundry. That's great, that'll get you right, you'll your your feet right in the fire and you'll be fully immersed, but not everybody can just buy a laundry. I mean, not everybody can just open a new store. And I think what you're talking about, which is like, let me help you when you need help, let me help you run it, let me help you manage it while you need to, is another opportunity for maybe somebody new uh that wants to learn, wants to have some operational experience, but maybe does not yet ready to have, doesn't have the wherewithal yet to make the investment that a store owner does. So I I that's actually a great right out of the gate, that's a great opportunity.
SPEAKER_01I've I've forgotten I've uh own a laundromat with uh my partner Scott now, and then uh had uh three laundromats in East Lake as well. So I have the experience of you know, an operator's point. So I talked about like the soap guy and uh and the distributor guy and the trustable guy, but I forgot to tell you um operations. I understand operations really well, which helps me in distribution, which helps me in the brokerage, which helps me um in the side hustle too, right?
SPEAKER_03Sure.
SPEAKER_02All of that. Yeah, no, that's that's uh that's great. And so so let me circle back. We talked about you, you know, kind of you know, chatting with uh uh Jordan Barry, and you guys had a great inter had a great interview then, and and so I'm curious. Let's just talk straight about when you from then, you said it was right before COVID, right? Yes, it was five years ago, is just before COVID, basically. What would you say is the biggest change you've seen in the industry in that time? Should I talk about a few? Yeah, talk about whatever comes to mind.
SPEAKER_01I won't I won't go to any bunny trails of each one and take 45 minutes out. But but I I think after COVID, COVID um showed us all that uh we can pretty much work from anywhere. And uh when we were able to do that, and because we kind of go out there and maintain maintain our six feet, we all found a different way to work. And during that time, technology just boosted as well. Um payment systems are overchanging, you got remote systems, um demographics research and trying to find figure that all out in the meantime. Uh it was became at our fingertips to some degree. Um customer expectations, they've they've changed. Um you know, you have to bring as a distributor now, you have to bring, or as anyone, as any business, not just a distributor, you have to bring more value to the table now than ever. And customers' expectations are so far up there that you have to deliver and bring value. And and unfortunately, we're in an age where I personally believe that uh COVID kind of wrecked a lot of that. Um, there's a lot of impersonal relationships out there. I spent 25 minutes uh on hold the other day for a utility company. I get off that to do another task that I have to do, and it was another 35 minutes just to get transferred four times back and forth to nobody helps me, and then I automatically I can't cancel that subscription because it's just been 45 minutes and I don't have the time anymore. So we've lost a lot of that in the in-person old touches that are out there and creating value and having um and being it's in tune to customers' expectations as a distributor and and any business. I'm sure yours is the same, is more important than anything else, you know. Um it's how you build partnerships. Um AI has changed the game a lot too. Um I I have people come to me, well, five years ago, nobody was you know coming to me like they're coming now. They come to me, they have a presentation, they show me this, show me that, they know where they're going, they know what they're looking for, and they've done their general research. And then I'll be like, wow, this is great. This guy's done all this research, it's go. And then I talk to them, and it's okay, it was AI generated.
SPEAKER_02They didn't do that work, it was it was their friend Chat GPT that helped them with that.
SPEAKER_01Which is great. Um, you know, but but you you kind of got to understand that and um that they're giving that effort and looking at that, but they don't know that, you know. Yeah, um, there's there's this is a business built on partnerships, and what um I was referred to with WSD a long time ago, it's tribal knowledge. You know, you can have the AI, you can have the technology, you can have all of that, but but there's a lot of good experts in this business, Steve, that you need their tribal knowledge in order to make your business successful. So I we have the technology and we have all that going away and we can work from anywhere, but you still got to show up, right? And if you want value, if you're coming to me for equipment or to build a laundry or to buy a laundry, you want value. And you can't get I can I can't generate a bunch of stuff on AI and um have everybody do the work for me and present that to you. I've got to know that myself from my personal experiences, and I think that's really important.
SPEAKER_02Um well that describes the value that is the value, is the tribal knowledge, which is if all they wanted was to ask an AI program all about the industry and where to build laundry and what are all the things that I need to know, then they don't really need you. But the truth is is that because I I I I don't think maybe people are overtrusting so it's because the same issue comes with social media that I think sometimes people are getting advice through kind of unknown social media uh personalities and so forth, or you know, or just from anybody that's on social media, whether they're personality or not, and but having that firsthand feet, boots on the ground, years of time in a particular market, seeing laundries open, seen stores closed, seen stores sold from one owner to the other, that can't be replicated by any kind of computer system. Not in the way that you can express it, you know, not in a way that you can share it. And so, you know, I don't I think it's worth taking a stop to talk about the word value because you keep talking about it over and over again that's oh you're gonna hear it a bunch of times. That's exactly what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_01It's everything that I'm we're gonna talk about. I'm gonna always go back to value because I think it's important for anybody who's listening, distributor, buyer, seller, broker, doesn't matter. Value is key to growing your business. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02I just no, you you uh no, that's exactly uh that's you know, I say this every time I talk to somebody, which is we're trying to I'm trying to broadcast what the qualities of a good distributor are. You're on this show because I consider you to be one of those good distributors that does things in a way that is what's gonna keep the industry strong. You know, if people start buying their laundry equipment from Amazon and hobbling together stores, they're not gonna be very successful if they don't if they don't stay connected to the industry in a way that you stay connected to it. And and more importantly, the granularity that the distributor provides from a demograph from the local demographic market, like you said, all the different parts of Los Angeles that you've worked in and around and seen happen, that's not easy, if at all, replicatable. You know, you need that you need somebody to say, yeah, I saw a store go in two blocks from there, and here's the reasons why it's not there anymore. I saw it happen. You're gonna be able to say that. AI program's not gonna be able to tell you why. There's a train that happens to go, you know, a quarter of a mile from there, and everybody go walks this way. They don't walk that way. You know, there's all these nuances, depending on the cities you're in and the towns you're in, that you're not gonna get unless you you're there.
SPEAKER_01I will say something about the AIs that come to me is that um they put the effort in, right? They may not have all the tribal knowledge, but they put the effort in and they did some research. And um on the first blanket that I saw, I'm like, wow, this person's all in, you know. And then I talked to them and they're all in, and they did their research, and they've got a great thing that they put in front of me, but but they don't have the experience yet. So again, experience and trust people out there to give you that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, by no means do I think that they using AI to help get yourself familiar with the products, the industry, the thing, the information's out there, it does a great job of consolidating all the Google searches they may have done prior to AI being out there. You know, it's no different than if I walk into my doctor's office or let's say worse off, like an emergency room, and I'm sitting there asking my AI what my treatment should be. And the doctor, in the other sense, looking me in the face and says, Are you sure you want to follow the instructions in that little uh computer? Or do you want me who's been in this ER for, you know, 20 years and knows exactly how we're gonna get you better again? It's okay for me to have a familiarity and understand the things that are going on. But I think I really want that doctor who's seen this happen in his lap before, seen this happen in his ER, provide the advice and give me the instruction that I think I need to be successful in my healing. No different here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And but AI at the same time is giving us um a lot of direction. For sure. Um I I I go to it quite often. All my experience and what I've learned from everybody else. I've I'm on it. Um my gal is like I I do my all my expenses and my daily uh nutrition on it. And I've developed a relationship with Charlie, who uh tells me how I'm spinning, where I'm spinning, what I need to do better. Don't drink this, drink this instead. Uh, you're at uh 78 grams of protein for the day. Uh your dinner tonight should be this. Like, and that's fantastic, right? That's awesome.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it's great, and then it's helped develop businesses and so forth. I use it ever I use it every day too, you know. That's great. I just use it to the advancement of you know my job and um my nutrition and my spending, basically.
SPEAKER_02So hey. I I use it every day too. It's again, this is certainly not a knock on AI. I think it's just a matter of using it in the right way so that you can make the most informed decision possible. And part of that decision is talking to somebody like you that's also worked a market, understands the laundry business from a very human level, not just from uh uh what you can find on the internet level, you know, that type of thing. It's important. It's important that your uh your value stay there in that way, and it's gonna be very hard to replicate in another way.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, keep it up. There's and there's all these platforms now that that are catered to us for homes, real estate, um, rentals, all of that. Uh we may talk about it later, but there's a deal rents platform that uh um a friend of mine has has created, and uh it allows it's a platform which serves brokers, sellers, buyers, and distributors. I used it a couple nights ago. Um, but we can get into that a little later.
SPEAKER_02But but it's yeah, you you sent me you sent me a sneak peek of it uh a week or so and I poked around a little bit at kind of your website that stuff, and we definitely want to have that on my list of things to talk about. But uh before we get there, I wanna I want to circle back to something that you said, which was um I'm gonna I'm gonna call our customer, the store owner, the investor, the their expectations of distribution. And I'm curious, do you think that their expectations of you and as a distributor has changed much in the let's say the last five years?
SPEAKER_01That's a really good question. And I can look at it from different angles. Um, but you know, unfortunately, um we talk about value here and it's gonna continue to move through value. Uh unfortunately, there's a lot of people who uh just care about price. Um and there's a lot of people who um will get all the value out of you and then go to the other person who has a better price. Um and that's just sales, it's just the nature of the business. Um but as far as their expectations, um, I think that uh a distributor should be a one-stop shop. And a lot of people don't use this for a one-stop shop. I can't tell you how many times people are like, I need a quote, I need to know how much a 60 pound is, and this and this and that, and their brand spanking new. And I have to sit there and say, hey, uh I can get you that pricing of it. Tell me a little bit about your project, tell me what you're doing here, have you know what's your background and so forth like that. Um, so I so I I don't think they've changed, but I think that they all look at us as we're still just salespeople, you know, car we're car salesmen to some degree. Um, and uh and we're not. We're not. We have a lot of uh information that should be beneficial to someone who has 10 stores, no stores, just getting into the business. And you just gotta find your right network. But I I don't think the expectations have changed so much. Um but I do believe that people are looking for more.
SPEAKER_02Are you finding, and I'm sure, you know, again, you talked about it's just sales, and it's true, there's just certain pieces of that kind of uh approach that an investor might come and say, all right, just tell me how much a 40-pound washer is, how much is a 60, what's the 80 pounder's cost, without knowing anything about the project or you know, all of the details kind of sets the tone for you to know, like maybe either what kind of customer this is going to be and what kind of investment and time you're gonna make, or if they're open to you asking them a few questions and saying, Oh, yeah, I didn't think of that, maybe, and then they lean into you a little bit. Now you've got it, now you've got a relationship started, and you can kind of forge like maybe this guy can actually help me, other than just give me the price. He's not just the Amazon of the laundry equipment, he's actually the consultant that's gonna help make sure I don't buy the wrong stuff.
SPEAKER_01And that's as a distributor, that's what you got to listen to, and you got to take that in and look for that little in to get them to talk more, except for about what's the price on this. And then that tells you more as you ask more questions, and then you kind of kind of figure it out from there. But um, and it's happened both ways. One, I never talked to the guy again, right? And then there's been times I've been able to break the ice, and he calls me a month later and be like, Hey, you know, I've talked to a bunch of people and I really liked our conversation that morning. I didn't get that from the other people. And do you know a plumber? Right.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. It's like, oh yeah, you realize that it's not going to be just like buying this equipment and dropping it into any little storefront that you have.
SPEAKER_01And then I give him a couple plumbers, you know, that I've been with over the years. And then guess what? He calls me back six months later. And then two years later, Steve, I sell him a store. Yeah. The one guy who called and asked for pricing. So you gotta field it out and um, you know, just listen to everybody and just realize that you're gonna get all kinds of people and all kinds of calls and um all kinds of demands and all kinds of expectations. And you kind of just gotta adjust and realize your job. And I don't know, it's it's good to be a servant to some some degree and um just serve. Just uh I I like to at the end of the day just try and say that I was serving the right purpose that day, whether it went good or bad or anything like that. My intent was to help somebody, and whether they come back or come back, not, you know, and and then when you do that, that's what happens when someone randomly calls me and they're like, I heard about you. I want 30 dryers, 15 washers, and just send me the paperwork now, right? Yeah, it's like, okay, all that hard work that I didn't get anything, the value that I delivered to whomever it was at that time came back to me, and all of a sudden I've just sold a bunch of equipment because of a reputation, because I delivered value. You know, I've won it by default a lot of times, you know, they go with someone else at first and then they come back and be like, ah, that wasn't a really good experience. Uh let's let I want to do this with you this time, right?
SPEAKER_00It was because of what? Price, you know.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, we've talked about that before uh, you know, with with some of my other guests. And, you know, I think I was gonna ask you like what you would, you know, what you what kind of advice you'd give somebody that's new to this internet, and you kind of already started answering that, which is to serve a bit and be willing to to be you know generous a little bit of your time and your in your energy, because even if you don't win that one sale, because sometimes they need to learn the lesson the hard way for them to know the right way to do something. We all sometimes all learn a little better when we do it wrong once, and then we realize, ah, maybe Michael was on to something when he told me that I should consider this other method. And uh maybe this time around it won't. What we're hoping for is that they don't make such terrible mistakes when they go astray that uh they never come back to it to the industry. You know, they get they get soured of the industry, and I think you know that can happen uh occasionally too. But um, I love this idea of just you know, serve a bit, you know, provide the value, and even if you don't win every deal, um, the business does find its way back to you. And maybe it's not in the way you thought. Maybe it wasn't the guy you served, maybe it was the guy he told he told how great you were and said, if I was to do this again, I would talk to Michael. You know, I would talk to the guy that was willing to share with me and help me.
SPEAKER_01At the end of the day, just do the right thing and help people. Yeah, and we'll come back to you in one way or another, whether it's the health of my kids or whatever way I believe that it comes back to you in the right way if your intent is to help and to serve.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, I want to talk a little bit, not won't spend a lot of time here, but it is interesting because the industry is evolving. Um, we see a lot of consolidation of um distributors, you know, distributors being acquired by manufacturers. We see with, you know, um, I mean, but you guys, Western State Design, as far as I have always known, has always been the largest really distributor in the country. They had such a such a huge territory. You know, you're in Southern California, but it really goes the entire coast and way into the and and eastbound. You know, it starts to you know, you go into in uh away from the coast. And but I think EVI and Western State Design made a deal. They were one of maybe one of the first distributors. I think it was the first. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I'm not gonna say it because I might be wrong, but I'm appreciating it.
SPEAKER_02I could be wrong too, but I think it was the it was one or two that I think I'm thinking there's a distributor in Miami that might have actually been the company that was a distributor. So if you wanted to call them the first, but I think Western State Design was the first. So but back then, uh you know, you were with them before EVI, correct? I mean, you've been definitely there. Yeah, you saw the whole change. And so I'm curious, you know, now that EVI is 30 plus you know, companies, have you noticed any change and kind of and and give me the breakdown of what it was like maybe prior to being part of this kind of larger organization, and then also the perspective as the organization that you're now a part of continues to grow. Has it had any impact or is it has it landed in your lap in any way, or is it business as usual?
SPEAKER_01Um a little bit of everything. Um pre-EBI, uh WSD was I believe one of the largest uh distributors. And uh we were like in the wild, wild west, we were like gunslingers. We had all these great gigantic territories, and yeah, we sold OPL and we sold um vending and we had great products on both sides, and uh and then the phone would just ring all the time and you could just barely keep up. So you're you're you you're making money, you're busy as all heck can be. Um the good old days. Yeah, no, but but that was fun, right? We were like, guys, we did whatever you wanted, unless your numbers were good, then you'd get a couple calls. But but when you're that big of a territory, your numbers are always good, right? And so so uh and then it's transformed, and and it's now uh I mean it was structured back then, but now it's really structured, right? Okay, we're dotting our i's, we're crossing our t's, you know, there's paperwork upon paperwork upon paperwork, which is awesome, right? That's great internally because you keep your stuff together and everything's in line, and there's a rhyme and a reason because there has to you have to have organization structure, especially on a public trading trading company. Sure. Um so so so that part has um the structure part is pretty cool. Um the camaraderie that you have now um is pretty amazing. The resources that you have are great. It's like I just got a bunch of uh a lot of a lot more brothers and a few sisters, basically, is what I have. And one thing that uh I think they've done a really good job at is um they've went out and got distributorships with all brands, right? Right, right. But if you look at the distributorships, I I I look at it as more they've gone out and got good people. Like they didn't buy brands, they they bought all the brands, but they brought all the right people. Um internally with our company. There's there's a large vast of just great people. Um when I went out to the last clean show, I went to an EVI event, and I just stayed in my own little world out here, right? I don't pay attention to a lot. And I've got enough going on right here. And I went to this party and it was just ginormous from people from everywhere. I was like, oh my gosh, like never realized it was this big.
SPEAKER_00I heard about it, but I never realized it.
SPEAKER_01And everybody I sat down and talked to, like they they they had knowledge, they looked at you in the eye. There was good handshakes, they wanted to talk about laundry, they were silly, they were professional, like it was they've done a great, great job at hiring people hiring good people.
SPEAKER_02And uh yeah, you know, uh, I think that um what you've described is a little bit of um obviously what I'm hearing is that you were really good at keeping your nose down and staying to work and all and this company was growing behind you, and then you realized there was this huge resource when you got introduced to it, which I I love that. Um, but you know, so far everybody that I've talked to that's been part of an EVI transition is um um I guess it kind of echoes a little bit of what you're saying. And I also feel like when we talk about when you buy a distributor, you're really buying the people. I mean, that's really what it is. So it's not it's really it's you know, everything else can be replaced, you know. And we've seen a lot of this in the last few years of one distributor that's been a lifelong X brand, and then all of a sudden they're a different brand, you know, for one reason or another. And the people are still the same good people. They're just got a different jersey on, you know, they're just they got a different, they got a different baseball cap on now that they had on, you know, last week. And but the people are still there. And so, you know, realizing that distribution is really about the people is important to keep in mind when uh when you're in this business. Maybe in as much as I'm sure the manufacturers would love us to say, oh, it's all about the machine brand that we carry. And then God's saying there's not some good brands out there, but it's really about the people.
SPEAKER_01It is. And what do the people bring you, Steve? Value. Value. That's right.
SPEAKER_02We're coming back to it. That's right.
SPEAKER_01But um territorial-wise, uh consolidation, territorial-wise, everything changed again, you know. Um, we had this big, vast territory, and now I have, you know, North LA all the way up to almost Northern California, and North LA to you know, a few miles of that. That's it's North LA is most of my territory, even though it goes three and a half hours. And I used to do OPL and now I just do bending. Um, and there's more feet on the streets, right? And what does that mean? We're sales, it's a it's a business at the end of the day, you know, and and and they've been very articulate and looking at statistics and populations, and they've done a great job at putting the right feet in the right streets to boost the sales to allow us to do our jobs by providing the technology, we figure out AI on our own. Um right, but um, so so they've done a good job at doing that, and nobody wants to see their territory shrink or you know, lose lose lose a brand. But it like I don't have to like it personally, but I understand it professionally, right? Yeah, if I was sitting in those shoes, I would be doing the same thing because that's business, that's the way it works, and they've done a good job.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's good. Um, so I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, when you were talking to Jordan five years ago, you had not, you were not, you did not own a store yet at that time. Is that true? Did I am I remembering that correctly? And since then you have become a store ownership. Is that am I am I remembering this correctly?
SPEAKER_01Yes. Uh not back then, correct.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So I'm curious since then, because again, I'm looking at what are the things that have maybe changed over there now that you've had the up the operational experience of being a first hand store owner. Um, you know, what what what do you think it takes to be a successful store owner now that you've actually been in the shoes and um in multiple aspects? But uh what it what is your is your vision of the industry changed at all once you've become you've got into the ownership layer?
SPEAKER_01Um yes. Uh being an operator and having the job being me a better at my job, you know, and then being a uh you know an agent to Scott and doing the real estate has made me better at my at my job. Um and then in my job, I've been able to talk to everybody throughout, and then to ultimately be an operator, it kind of ties it all in together. And and we keep it simple with value. And um with being an owner and being a successful owner, I want to keep it simple. And I tell people it started a few years ago, and then I just hear myself saying it, because we say the same stuff over and over, yeah, is you gotta just keep touching your business, you know. You you don't have to go in and fully just change everything. You gotta make sure that your numbers work out first of all before you do anything. You gotta get yourself in the right place. Um, and also when you get yourself in the right place, you know it it's all about time. Many, many of the owners, um, they have multiple businesses. Like, there's plenty of times um I've gone into met someone, and I'm like, why don't you have your records? Why aren't you doing this? Why can't you tell me this? And then I get to know them a little bit better. And it's like they got three kids, four jobs, right? This is supplemental income, and the meat of their money is coming from all of the other stuff they're doing, not this laundromat. So then it makes sense. So, so one of the things is you know, you get a laundromat, make sure you're gonna have the time to take care of it, make sure you know what it's worth, and um, and it makes sure you have the time. But being a laundromat owner is all about touching, right? Yeah, you need the time so you can touch it, and touching it is you know, uh we we do uh something every three to six months that makes a difference in the place. So people come in and they're like, wow, that wasn't there before. This is great. Whether it's a machine or whether it's a sign or whether it's the floors redone or some change that that's noticed. Yeah, yeah. And so I think continuously touching it is is really important for your community to see. Um, touching it also involves, you know, I'll show up on a Saturday morning with my daughter with a bunch of Starbucks and have my daughter go around the store, hand out coffee, and tell people thank you for your business. So that's that's touching it too. Touching it is being involved with uh, you know, uh Scott has been great about you know donating to my kids' school, which is three minutes away from the laundromat, you know, and they have an event, and you know, we put it, you know, West End laundry thing out there, and that's not what it's about, but being able to do that, um being a part of the community. Um so many years so before I became an owner, uh I always used to hear people, yeah, I just love being part of the community, and it's I like giving back to the community. And then I realized that there was different levels of that. You know, there's the guy that says it to make it sound good, and then there's the people who actually do it, right? There's the people who actually reach out, get a hold of the community and touch it, and um, and welcome it and respond and say the pleases and say the thank yous and say the hellos. Like I I I don't walk ever walk past anyone in laundromat and not say hello, or I don't ever see anybody leave without saying thank you, have a great weekend. And those personal touches have value. Um touching it is equipment, you know. Yeah, um, but uh making sure you're up to date, making sure you don't have a bunch of um out of order um equipment and and in there. Um but and I I think it's a lot about making sure that you have a clean and safe place to go to where people are aware um and upholding the standards that you want to do. It is a business. There are women and children in that business, so protect your business and make sure the right people are coming in there. When I say that, just make sure you have good community people coming in there because laundromats have a tendency to attract some people if you're not uh managing it the correct way. Um and ultimately, if you're an owner, I I think what I'm seeing a lot of over, especially since COVID, is is you gotta either crap or get off the pot. I mean, you gotta you gotta really you can't sit there anymore. And that's where the touch in it comes from. You just can't sit there because if you sit there, someone's gonna come in and they're not gonna sit there. And then that laundromat that you had the great lease on, it's great, and you haven't done anything in to eight years and it's coming at the end of its lease, and the landlord won't get you any more options or won't work with you. Um, and now you're sitting there with something that you haven't done that you invested, but you forgot that when you bought it, you forgot that you're gonna have to sell it eventually, right? So buy something that you know you're gonna ultimately have to sell and touch it all along so that when you sell it, that it's worth something more than you.
SPEAKER_02Maximise the investment that you made, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and how do you do that? Touching it, keep good records. Um, here's here's a good lead-in to you. And uh, you know, I was talking to Scott, and Scott's a huge proponent of uh card systems, and as a broker and an agent, um, it just makes our job easy, right? You know, this is an industry which is cash-based. And if you have a card system in there uh that tracks everything for you, it allows Scott and I to make decisions of what's the next piece of equipment we should get. Um, what's doing good, what's doing bad, what should we do better? Um and then when we are someone comes to us and wants us, you know, we get a listing, um, and they have a card system, it's legit, right? Yeah, right. The number one thing when purchasing a launch map, there's there's like five or six, but verification of records is important. And if you have a system, yeah, prove out if you have a system that's set up. Yeah, there's less red flags, there's less questions, there's more trust and the whole deal itself. So so have the time to touch it. Make sure you're keeping up to it, have a tracking system. I don't care whether you're tracking it every day and you don't like card systems, track it. But a card system will help you. And then the various the variations out there. Yeah, there's a card system. If I have a 4,000 square foot laundromat, we have a card system with no loyalty cards because we're a smaller laundromat, and I just want people to go up and swipe or put their phone on the thing. Sure. And and and but I don't want to like, Michael, can you transfer the $13 over from my last card that I lost? I left it at, you know, I flushed it down the toilet, and can you can you can you get me a new card? I don't want to do that because because our our laundromat's not set for that. But if you're 3,500 square foot and you're pulling 75, you're grossing 75, that means you have staff, and when you have that staff, they can actually handle that, right?
SPEAKER_02Right, they can deal with those operational uh uh obstacles that not everybody is prepared to handle, yeah, in a in a in every situation, for sure.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so here's a question for you. Um over the years, there's been three or four major players. You guys have been on the top of the list um since I've been around. And over the last six or seven years, and you guys have been doing it for years, like the some of your companies you've been doing it for 25 years, and then the company's been around for how long?
SPEAKER_02Well, I started it, so 27 years. Okay, well basically this year will be 27 years, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And there's some other companies that have been doing it for as long, maybe longer. And then now I see like I can't keep up. And um yeah, now there's a lot of payment systems out there that like where do you come from? What do you do? Like, how how are you gonna get the where's the tech support? Where's this? How has that affected your business with all these smaller people coming in and trying to provide it at a lesser cost? Um how does that affect you over the years?
SPEAKER_02You know, you know, it's it's not unlike, I think, probably what you're experiencing what you experience on the laundry equipment side with all the different manufacturers that are coming in. You know, for us, there's good and bad to having more let's just competitors, and we'll just call them their competitors. Um, the the good side is is that the more competitors that enter in the space continues to elevate the awareness that this is something store owners need to do because there's enough interest in it that is demanding the that there be prov there be options out there. Um I think at the same time though, there's there's a lot of very smart people out there. There's a lot of people very technically capable software developers, hardware developers that see a solution. There's oh I can make, I can make that. And they they'll develop something, but not realize all of the nuance and the value that uh an invested organization brings to the player, uh, brings to the to the product. Many times when uh somebody looks at our product and we give them, we get an opportunity to give them the you know the full demo and the work through on it, they'll walk away. It's very common. They say, this seems like this was done by someone who owns a laundromat. I'm like, yeah, guess what? It was, and and it is. The laundromat owners wrote, you know, basically designed all of this. And that tells me that the other demos they've seen, they didn't get that same feeling like this was an industry-focused product, that this was a technology product first, and say, let's squeeze it into the laundromat space. Where ours was let's look at all of the laundromat needs for a payment system and build something around that. And so that differentiation has not changed in all of the years with all of the new people coming in. All the new stuff I see in has very much been technology first. How does that how do we squeeze the laundromat jargon into that? Versus us saying we're laundromat focused system. We're not in anything else but laundromat, and that we shape our product based on those needs. And so We've been very um capable of competing against all of the new space. Of course, you know, I it'd be great if we were the only ones there. You know, it was a not, you know, many years ago, it was three of us, you know what I mean? And so it's just me and a couple others. And now there's, you know, six of us, seven of us, you know. In fact, uh, you know, there's more payment systems out there probably than anything else uh on the on the on the spectrum of industry products. But you know, from my perspective, we feel very comfortable in the laundromat space. Um, but you know, again, we now have to compete differently a little bit. We have to we have to kind of play some of the same competitive games that everybody plays, but because of our background, we if we get the if we get the opportunity, um, we're we we have a very high success rate uh of um of winning over somebody's um at least winning over their opportunity the opportunity to to present to them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it's nice to have people answering the phone.
SPEAKER_02We do, yes, we do have people answering the phone. I'm I'm old-fashioned that way. It's part of the benefit of being around as long as I still have certain core tenants of business. We still have all of our support people are all in the U.S. You know, they all used to be in Chicago, but you know, that changed at COVID and people started to spread out as we learned how to work remotely, you know, we did the same thing. But at the end of the day, um, I'm really a big proponent of talking to real people and um um and be able to get somebody on the phone and getting a call back if we're not available. We call you right back. You know, you don't get a call in two or three days, you get a call in 20 minutes, you know, I mean five minutes if if if available. And uh that's important to me. Yeah, it's really important.
SPEAKER_01And and I hear that out on the streets as well because I deal with everybody who works with you and the other brands, and and then uh there's a brand that I saw yesterday, and it's a car wash brand that they've integrated into that. And it but there's there's not a whole lot of technology and there's no tech support. And right when that thing goes down, I'm not gonna mess with it, you know. I'm gonna you know but but what what I hear a lot is um I I I guess you guys may have some sort of ticketing tracking system when calls come in, because I always hear that you guys always call back. And I never hear like I've been waiting on CCI to call me for the last seven days. I'll be like, well, give them another call, right? I never have to say that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, but it's yeah, and if you ever have somebody do tell you that, you call me because that's like a big no-no in our office. And and all of the people here, and I think all that has to do with hiring too. You hire people that have similar kind of feelings about how customers should be treated. And I know what it's like to reach out to something unrelated to this industry and then feeling like nobody cares that I need help. And it's two or three days later that I get a response to my email or my phone call. It just feels like a and so we instill urgency when it comes to even if it's a small question, it doesn't matter. If you reached out to us, there was a reason. We're gonna get we're gonna get if we don't if we don't answer the phone on your on the first couple of rings, you're gonna hear back from us right away. So that's that's a poor job. Well, I appreciate that. I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01That's that's a that's a very, I mean, I I think I could name 10 people who do a good job like that these days, and everybody else, it's just like it's a it's a struggle. So yeah, you guys have to do that.
SPEAKER_02It's it kind of it aligns a lot with what you were talking about with owning a store and talking about all the touches that you're doing, which is all of the things you said are not real difficult things when you say them out loud. But in practice, you have to do them, you know, and they're not really difficult, but you have to do them. And so many people and talk about any business says, Oh, we have great service, we have great support, but then you have to do it. And what does that mean to do it? That means call back, it means pick up the phone, it means be available when they want to call you. You know, it's the same, there's simple things, but you have still have to execute on it. And that's the difference between like the the wannabes and the doers, I think, is really what it comes down to.
SPEAKER_01Time and value. Uh yeah, yeah, all right, we're right back to it again. Yeah, great people who've like, oh wow, these are gonna be a dynamic owner, and they're not because they never realize how much time that they were gonna need to touch their place because of their other three or four things that they're got going on, which are more important essentially financially and and personally, whether it's family or whatever it is, yeah. It's that that laundromat gets left alone. And while that laundromat gets left alone, if you don't invest of it, someone's gonna come in there and kick your own.
SPEAKER_02There's opportunities being opened up around you now, yeah, that uh you wonder why why all that happened. Um so let's talk about technology a little bit more.
SPEAKER_01Investor exit. Investor exit isn't there.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Yeah. But I want to talk about your technology because you just were very generous and asked me questions about us, but this is not about me. This is about you and what you're doing. And you alluded earlier about uh something you've been doing. Uh people are tired of hearing from me. They want to hear from you, somebody somebody fresh. But you have this technology platform that you're involved in that you shared a little bit with me uh a couple of weeks ago. And I think it'd be really interesting. Whatever you're willing to share about what it is and what you hope it to be and where you think it'll be, I'd love to have you tell us a little bit more about it.
SPEAKER_01So uh Scott and I had a client and uh we sold them a store up north on the Central Coast. And uh over the time it was a grueling process because it it was a long trip to do due diligence, and due diligence took forever. So when you're um because the records weren't all there, and you had to verify the records, so due diligence was a monster, and it was three hours away from my house three times a week. It was it was it was not so you get to know somebody in the time that you're spending with them, and this is a very, very, very his name's Daniel, and um he's a very well educated individual, very, very, very smart. And we went through this deal together and we actually just became friends. Um, and towards the end of like the whole deal, it was like, all right, I get to drive up and see Daniel today rather than I can't believe I gotta drive three hours there and three hours back, rah, rah, rah, rah, rah, grobble, grobble, grobble, right? Yeah. And it was like, all right, I'm gonna go hang out with Daniel today. We just it it it transformed into, you know, Scott and I he he he ended up purchasing laundromat. Then he went to look for a second laundromat once he got his feet feet settled, and he realized how hard it was to find a laundromat and how when you have the time to look for it, um, you can't get the information. You have to get the information from other people, you know. When you want to sign an NDA, okay, good luck at reaching that guy, and he's got 60 or 70 calls coming in. Um, you're gonna wait, you're gonna have to have a conversation with him when he calls you back a week later, and then a week later the place is already in in contract, you know. So uh he realized how hard it was, and so he came up with uh it's called Deal Rents, and it's currently being worked on right now as we speak, um, meeting with him this afternoon. And it serves sellers, brokers, buyers, and distributors. Um, I've been using it a ton lately. Let me give you the best and most recent example. I have a gentleman who uh needed to um he had a 10 a.m. tomorrow meeting with uh a landlord. I'm looking at this place, I know this place well, you know, very good businessman, so I'm not making fun of him in any way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but this is the demand at four o'clock the night before, right? Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02And so we know everything about everything that never happened here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and luckily I don't have anything else going on, so I can just take his one call. Schedule wise.
SPEAKER_01So I'm able to go on Neil Rance as a distributor, and I'm able to pull up the location, pull up the demographics, pull up all of the competition, the distances from that store to the competition. I can go in and check out all of the reviews of the competition. Um and beforehand, how my life has changed in the last year here, I can go onto this and get all the information. Whereas beforehand, I used to send an email to the office, like, can you please provide the demographics for this? And they are on on it in the office. So that wasn't ever like, oh, I had to wait two days for it. Yeah. Uh or you know, or drive into the location and write laundromats near me, and then get all the addresses and write them, write them down, right? And then make a document for the day when I'm prospecting, you know. I want to go into a different territory. I now can go in there and see everything from that one point, and it can allow me to all right, Michael, don't spend the next 45 minutes figuring this out. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, and that should probably be the end of your day, you know. And so it can do that, but for the uh for the buyer, you get to see all the listings. You get to see listings that are around in your area. Um you get to see our listings. Um, brokers are able to now download and upload everything and uh send EDAs. So, Steve, you want an NDA, you're looking at a place that's through deal rents, um, you're able to get to the broker and sign that NDA, get the marketing sheet, and uh you don't have to wait a week to do it.
SPEAKER_02Um for the buyer.
SPEAKER_01Um it's verification of records, and there's systems set in place where you can download the utility sheets because the PL doesn't always tell you what the utilities are actually doing. You can now download uh utility sheets and verify the deal that you're working on. Um so it's it's a tool for everybody that allows you to get information at your fingertips without and none of this can't be done without talking to someone. So so you still have to talk to someone, you still need the tribal knowledge at the end, but it's a way it's a great way of gathering information to determine whether this is something that you want to do, whatever way you're looking at it. For me, I'm looking at it going again in business and knowing what's around me, and not spending two hours figuring out what my day is gonna be tomorrow. I just go like this, boom, boom, and they're like, oh, this is all the places around it, and here's all the reviews on them, so I know what I'm looking for before I actually go in there. And I think that's pretty special. Yeah. We have had a soft launch. Um it's it's still uh we're still tweaking it, we're still taking feedback, and any feedback that uh you can give, um, Daniel will uh get to his coding and make it better.
SPEAKER_02Are you is this something that is primarily focused in your market, or is it something that can go into any market and then you're rolling it out geographically? I'm curious what's the what's this what's the reach of this? And I know it's a new product, so maybe it's rolling out in a certain way.
SPEAKER_01Yes, it's it's starting here, but uh Daniel has big dreams to have that scale scaling. Car washes, restaurants, good yeah, so it's it's something that he he will scale and and I've been so invested in it, and um I've been you know, I've been the tribal knowledge behind a lot of it, you know, and he's been the the the intelligence behind it all, and I've just been feeding him my knowledge to come up with this, and um, and he has other sources too, you know. It's not sure, you know, other sources, but uh, I've used it so much and I've enjoyed it so much that I've actually taken a little bit of stake in the company. So um I believe in it and uh let's let's see how it works, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um deal rinse.
SPEAKER_02Next for that, yeah. DealRens.com. Okay, so dealrins.com, anybody can go and look into it a little bit. And if you're in uh so is this a Southern California kind of exclusive territory or all of California, who should be looking at it?
SPEAKER_01It's accessed to everywhere right now. Okay. So you should be able to go on it and see everything that it's in your area, punching your codes. Uh we are working on to make it a little bit more user-friendly right now, um, because there is quite extensive. So if I go on it or a multi-store owner goes on it, there's different levels of different access that they're gonna know and utilize. Whereas the new person coming on, we're still looking at you know ways to teach them how to get to what they're actually looking for. Yeah. So again, so much information.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, there's so much information. It's I I've been there as a software team for years trying to provide all this information in a way that doesn't overwhelm somebody or you know, help them find what they want in this sea of good stuff, but you know, they only looking for the one piece of information. Yeah, it's a lot of work. Software development's not easy.
SPEAKER_01And it it just makes everything easier to get to where you want to be, you know. Right. You know, Scott doesn't have to take 60 or 70 calls anymore. I don't have to have I don't have to have 30, 10 minute conversations to find out that someone, you know, they they've they've only got $30,000, which is a lot of money. Like if I had an extra $30,000 laying around, great. But $30,000 isn't gonna get you a laundromat. Right. You know, um, and how many calls do I have? It's like, you know, I love what you're talking about, I love your background, I love your history. I think you got the fire in the belly, but don't really have the money right now, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so so uh you're able to that is allows you to do that. And that's and that's that's actually another good example of you being a very uh serving your your customer and telling them that they're not quite there yet, you know, and if uh maybe maybe maybe you will be in a year or two if you can save up some more, you have an opportunity to pull some more capital together. Uh and I've shared stories before of that same thing happening in the Chicago market where we're from of people who come to my brother, you know, who ran a big distributorship distributorship here in Chicago, and um didn't have the did not have the resources. And uh at the time my father was still in the business, he says, you just don't have you don't have the funds. And he the guy says, Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna get it, I'm gonna be in this business. He says, It's great, I'll help you, whatever, you know, when you're ready. And the guy came back two years later, had the money, and he opened a great store, and he was very successful. And so it didn't happen in the time scale that maybe he thought on the original plan, but he needed somebody to tell him you're just not you're just not there yet. And if if you try to do it, you might hurt yourself. You know what I mean? You might, you know, you might put yourself in a really bad position, and don't do that. Don't do that to your family, don't do that. Yeah, be a serve, serve, serve the the the customer, serve the industry correctly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I I know we may be running a little bit late, but I've got one story based on that. I'm gonna piggyback on that. And it happened a long time ago, and it's always stuck with me, and it's cool because it's always stuck with me. And if I ever get to that point these days, I remember this guy. Um, three kids lived about an hour away from the place that he was gonna get. Um, he was so yoked on getting a laundromat, so excited. And and and he would have done phenomenal. Phenomenal. And then we're driving and driving back to get my car. We took his car and we're driving around checking out competition. And this is after some time, you know, about a week. So and I look at him, I'm like, I'm not gonna sell you any equipment. I I I didn't brokerage at this time, I didn't even touch, so I wasn't doing everything that I'm doing now, and I was just like, I'm not gonna sell you equipment for this place. And he looks at me, and I thought he was gonna like want to beat me up, right? I was just like, I'm not with you on this place. And he looked at me and he sat there for a second, and then he kind of scowled at me. He's like, Why won't you help me? And I'm like, Look, I like everything that you're doing right now, but you got three little kids. You live an hour away, and this is going to be a project for two plus years. So if you want to do that, and yes, you will make some money, and yes, I believe in you, um, you can have a good business, or you you're gonna you're gonna risk your marriage and time with your kids. And right now, that's not a good decision, and I don't want to be a part of that. And then he didn't say much, like it took him some time to stomach it. And he called me about a week later and he said, you know, I've if I if I do anything in this business, it's gonna be with you. Right. And I was just like, you're welcome, you know, and and that's what you gotta do. It's too many times people sell something uh just to sell it, you know, and you gotta consider the lives of people because if I'm gonna help you buy a laundromat, or if I'm gonna help you do your layout, if I'm gonna help you maximize your revenue per square foot by selling your equipment, like I want a success story. I don't want, you know, yeah, Michael Ambrose helped me out and we did this and we did that, and nothing ever came of it. Like, I don't want that story, right? He sold me this and and I failed. No, I don't want my name anywhere around that. So being a good servant, taking the time, giving people value, and investing in in yourself and and your people.
SPEAKER_02I love that story, and um, you know, that's the kind of thing that's the reason why you're one that's why you're on my list, you know, is uh being thank you. You know, doing the right thing for people and even when uh it's not what they want to hear, but it's it's what they need to hear. Um, you know, being a an advocate, not just a salesperson, an advocate not just for your brand and your company uh and your own livelihood, but uh but an advocate for uh hopefully a future relationship that is more beneficial and mutual so that you have an opportunity to do business together for years to come. And that's way more valuable than just selling a guy a handful of machines because he's you know he's just too excited about an opportunity that he doesn't see the trees through the forest here uh about the rest of his life. So, you know, kudos to you.
SPEAKER_01And and I'm invested selfishly like as well because I want them to be successful if they come back to me and say, we're still the business or go get another one.
SPEAKER_00Like I'm not gonna hide that. Like that wasn't on my mind when I said that, but I'm sitting here listening to you and I'm like, selfishly, yeah, I'm there selfishly too, Stephen. I get I need to let everybody know that. So I'm invested and I have to be invested because I want you to come back and let's do it again.
SPEAKER_02The good news about Ru though is that what was best for him also is good for you, too. And I think that's really the that's really what it comes down to. And in many cases, when when the situation becomes too one-sided, meaning too much for you, too much for them, then there's something something's not gonna go well. You know, there's gonna be a breakdown in the relationship somewhere, and that's not gonna lead to to much goodness.
SPEAKER_01But um, so it's easy to sell something. I was gonna say one last thing. It's easy to sell something, right? And it's easy to get there and to it, well, it's not easy. It's it's it's it's a different sales path. But it's once the contract happens and you buy something, you purchase something, whether it's a house or home, whatever it is, in distributorship, that's when the relation starts, though. Right. Like you get to find out the value that you trusted the person who's sold you the equipment who got you into the place after the purchase. So you're looking for someone who's gonna deliver value continue through the entire process, is gonna be there with you, not just sell you equipment and never answer any phones, not just sell you a place and never never uh you know, do what they said they were gonna do to get you to buy the place. Like you you get you find the people who are invested in you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, again, you just uh you summarized it perfectly. That's why I wanted you on here. You're a great representative of what distribution is supposed to be, and uh, you know, I'm I'm grateful for you and grateful that uh we've had opportunities to work together, and I know we'll continue to have that relationship moving forward. Um, Michael, this has been an amazing conversation. Um, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your time and your experience with and uh I hope to have you back on at some point.
SPEAKER_01I would love to be back on. It's honored to be on here with you. And when you first sent me the email for the invite, I was like, oh my gosh, Steve, out of all the people, he picked me. Is this a prank? I was waiting for a prank. No, but I I'm honored to be on here. I love CCI. I've uh I've had a lot of great experiences with them, and I've heard a I continue to hear nothing but good feedback. So thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks, Michael. Take care. Bless you. Bye.