SPEAKER_00 0:14

Welcome to CCI Drive Time, the podcast for vended laundry distributors. I'm Steve with CCI using your drive time to cover laundromat trends, payment systems, and practical topics that you can use in the field. Today's episode, I spoke with Joel Jorgensen. He is the vice president of sales over at Continental Laundry Solutions. Joel and I have known each other for many, many years, basically came up in this industry together. He has been with the equipment manufacturing for a long time, has just seen everything, is just a tremendous marketer, communicator, educator, and just really knows how to break this business down into components and to really help people find success here. So great conversation. And here we go, Joel Jorgensen. Mr. Jorgensen, how are you today?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Good morning, Steve. Great. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:12

I'm fantastic. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's uh uh you know, we've known each other for a long time, and uh I'm actually looking forward to our our our chat today. Um we we get to see each other at all over the country uh at various events, and um, you know, uh you guys actually Continental itself holds a really special place in my in my heart, my family. We've you know we've we've known you guys for a really long time. Um and so getting an opportunity to have a little shop talk with you and kind of share some of the wisdom that I know uh you're gonna be able to bestow upon us today is uh is exciting. So thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yeah, I appreciate that. And we obviously feel the same. Uh we pretty much grew up in the industry together. Um so I mean, we're letting other people into conversations we have all the time.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Yeah, that's exactly right. Um the you know, before we jumped into the recording here, you know, I just gave you a, you know, we talked a little bit about some of the things we'll we'll probably go over. Um but you know what for those, and it's impossible for me to imagine nobody that the people listening don't know who you are, but why don't we just start by you giving yourself the an introduction and talk a little bit about Continental? Um, I think it'd be interesting to know how did you, I don't even know if I know how you got into the laundry business. I know we're stretching the the memory banks here a little bit, but give us the give us the uh Joel Jorgensen Continental, uh, how'd you get in the business uh story?

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Yeah, for sure. I I mean I think a little bit of follows you know your track. It was who I knew. Um I grew up in Ripon, Wisconsin, and you know, uh you you can't get away from the influence of commercial laundry, laundry in general. It's got a you know a 120-plus year history in little rippon of 7,500 people. So um, you know, my family was not part of laundry. We were business owners from my grandfather to my father and uncle. Um I left, went away to school. Um, no other reason. Loved my loved my you know my humble beginnings in a small town in the Midwest and and did go west to get my first job. And um I think at the time I had a daughter, so came home from work one day and I had a message that there was a phone call asking me to return a call to Mike Floyd. And so, you know, we're living in Denver at the time, uh, made that call and through a series of interviews in late 93, um, was offered a position, actually not to work for Mike. You know, he instigated the thing but wouldn't hire me. Um and joined laundry with then the Speed Queen Company. Um, we're owned by Raytheon, and I started in a role in multi-housing and government contract sales. So kind of a unique little, I mean, I it was a broom closet um, you know, segment of the business. Multi-housing was big, obviously, um, and served a role there for a couple of years and then moved into a regional position. Um, actually called on your father back in the day. Um, and then I transitioned after an acquisition into a regional role with uh with another brand with the company and then joined Continental in '97. 97. Right. Yep. So very early beginnings of of Continental. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Yeah. Pretty much the beginning of Continental. I mean, I know Jirbao has been around for a long time, you know, the the underlining, but but you guys started Continental. That's the way I look at it, whether that's the truth, that's always the way I viewed it. And um, I'll tell you, you know, uh, you know, the from the Marcinetti perspective, you know, when my father um decided to go into distribution on his own, and uh, you know, that's a big leap for any sales guy that's gonna leave you know the comfort of working for a kind of a successful distributorship to move on, um, I know that you and Mike were really open-armed about having um having my father get a distributorship, you know what I mean? And uh it was amazing because what the one of the things that I appreciate most and why I'm so excited to talk to you about this is that I have dealt with lots of distributors. I've dealt with lots of manufacturers, and although all of them have great people and they have lots of things, but the sense of I'm gonna say family because I'm not looking for another sense of the word, but I'm looking for some other way, is the sense of family that I always felt when we met with you guys, when we met with um all of the distributors who were part of the continental, you know, family um is very different than any other experience that I've ever that we've ever had in over the years. So kudos to you guys for building that environment.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

I appreciate you saying that. And and it's cliche, and you know, early on it was such a small organization, and yeah, while the the equipment had um some basis in North America, um we're creating a whole new brand. And it was a leap of faith, and it was a leap of faith for your father and other distributors to jump on board, not so much with the equipment, more you know, the direction of what the you know the support infrastructure was going to be in North America because that's really what either makes or breaks any equipment brand, because you sell it once and then it's got to be in operating use, and the parts have to be there, and the technical support, um, obviously through distribution. That was a key part of the intrigue for me was to build something. And that Mike knows how to dangle a carrot, he did it well, he knew my entrepreneurial spirit to a degree, um, and really fulfilled every promise that what it could be. And that was ex those are exciting times. They're scary, but they're also exciting times because we were building a distribution network because you can't sell a machine to Fargo, North Dakota, whether it's one or twenty, and without the support mechanism uh and infrastructure around it to support that sale. Otherwise, it'll be a one-time, one and done and distribution. Obviously, your father uh was one of the mentors. I can point to many, he was one of the key mentors for me coming up to speed with different elements of this very dynamic business.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yeah, it's uh it's great because not that family environment that you guys started also encouraged a sharing of kind of talents between the distribution, all the different markets that you would bring together at meetings and all kinds of you guys did hosted great events and you know the trips and everything else that were all the fun stuff too. But I think what it really caused is is a communication between people and they can learn from what they were good at and sharing where they were successful. And I I just remember that being one of the best parts about going to a continental distributor event, uh distributor event, you know, like some kind of hosted meeting was the sharing of something. I think sometimes you guys would even take something that you thought was amazing and made it part of your presentation that you were going to present to us.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

No, for sure. That's the really the the foundational essence of what we tried to do. Um I mean, really as a manufacturer's rep for the lying share of my um time in this business, I learned from the market. You know, you can take some manufacturing nuances back, you can say, hey, these are the engineering changes, or here's a new structure for parser warranty. But you're learning how your machines are being applied and used from the distributor who's on the local level, and absolutely from their customer base that gives us the value feedback that you know I've always felt a specific responsibility for reporting back because the manufacturer can't sit there and pretend and know exactly the nuances of what is used, what is not used, what's a value proposition. So mixing in those distributor events, allowing you to you know converse and and congregate and create relationships was a key part of that because that's again how we've learned, and I've personally learned myself, it's always from the market back up, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Yeah. Um and you know, I think you know, when I look at what's happening now, I mean things are very different than it was they were 30 years ago. You know, we're we're we're pushing 30 years. I know it's hard to imagine that we're getting almost 30 years in this business at this point, but things have changed. Um, this the landscape has changed. But I'd be curious in your thoughts on the the idea of what the distribution itself is not necessarily different, but finding what makes a good distributor is really what maybe the challenge. And so I guess I I'd really love to hear your perspective on what do you think makes uh a good distributor, an excellent distributor versus uh just just a guy that sells laundry equipment.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Yeah, yeah. I mean, whether it's from my my first um you know entry into the business or the the you know the path and the growth that we've had, Continental Laundry Solutions is a you know a sales, a training, um uh parts, um, you know, technical uh support designed to be that delivery to the distribution base and their customers, right? And so as you get into the multi-segments of our commercial and industrial laundry, distribution is is different, and the nuances of their service down to the market and their customers does have a difference. So if you if you sum it all up, Steve, it really just comes down to value service. And and that is you know, service in parts availability, that is service in in staff and training, making sure that the staff knows what they're representing and selling, uh, whether it's installation. I mean, we'll get into integration, but there's so much integration that happens in the business uh from base equipment into payment POS today. Um I mean, there's ozone systems, there's always been chemical delivery systems through the different levels of commercial and industrial laundry. You're integrating one machine into maybe a big industrial plant or a replacement washer or dryer or dryers uh into a laundromat. I mean, that's the that's the differences between the importance of the service and again it does just come back to that distributor staying uh in and ahead of the trends and the new technologies in the business today.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yeah, no, that's uh that's that's well said. And I think I think when when I think about Continental Um and just the experiences that I've had is you you guys are known for promoting not only the the the the the educational layers of it, but that it almost portrays on the it becomes part of what the distributors that you sign on to doing the same to their customers. And so it's like training to train, you know, trying learning to learn to teach someone else. Uh-huh. And uh I think that's one of the things that probably for me has kind of set things apart for for for you guys and why you guys have been successful over so many years at this point. Uh-huh. And to compare it to what I feel like is happening today is that you we can see some of these fringe brands, and not to not to knock them, but these fringe brands that have no network yet are trying to promote products. You know, there's a there's availability of equipment on the market today, but I don't see them gaining a lot of traction. They might steal a deal here and there, you know, but I don't see those brands rocketing ahead of anybody, even though their price points may be less than what we're seeing, because I think there's so much behind this partnership that if you're going to invest this kind of money, I don't care if it's a million dollars in continental equipment or 900,000 in some other brand of equipment, you saved yourself, but if that store can't survive the trials and tribulations of what it takes to open a business, that does not matter.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Right. I mean, you look at equipment. I I mean, I'll go back to your father's words. I mean, a laundromat, for example, he used to say, I mean, all we're doing is bundling utilities and delivering them, you know, through a washer or a dryer in the format of a laundry service, right? People have to launder every day. So all we're doing is bundling and consolidating utilities and delivering them through wash cycles and dry cycles, and then folding apparatus or availability. And I mean, I love simple fundamentals, and he was very good at bringing it down to a fundamental level. And when you look at today, I mean, I think back to AOL days and dial-ups and whatnot. I mean, the the internet is this supermarket, right? You can go and shop for anything, you can research anything, and a little bit of what is lost there is there still is the essence of a production machine dependent on utilities, infrastructure of a of a facility to operate and deliver the duty service that you expect and you've made that investment in. And you you said it, there are there are a lot of low-cost alternatives out there, and you can shop and find anything to the far reaches of the globe, right? It's really the service and the duty support and and you know, how long will that one-time purchase be an operating income source or production asset for your facility, no matter the application. And that's really what is lost in a lot of the purchase decisions when they're getting a flash or a you know a you know, fundamentally low-priced machine. Typically that comes with low price support and or non-existent support after the sale.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

I just promoted the idea that you know you get what you pay for, and I don't care what it is, and that's a great that's a perfect example of where you may not want to choose the least expensive option, you know, because we're not, yeah, and you you've said it very well. Equipment is we have to have the equipment, it's got to be good equipment, it's got to have all the bells and whistles, and some of that stuff's very exciting, and we're gonna get into some of it. But at the at the end of the day, though, if it's not supported well and you can't keep that machine because everything is gonna break. I'm sorry, I know your equipment's fantastic, but it's gonna fail at some point, somewhere down the road. And if that machine is offline for three weeks or three days or three months because you can't you can't get it back online, that is gonna, I don't care what you paid for that machine. Now you've just basically lost anything you saved in the beginning. Not because it broke, but because you couldn't get it back. And the relationship with your distributor has a play in that, the manufacturer supporting the machine properly has a play in that. So you know, buying decisions have to include that. And I and I think that it because of the internet, and you know, we all we all love it from a consumer perspective because we feel like we can research things, but what we don't necessarily get from just shopping online is the consultative layer of what a distributor can should be providing, let's call it that, should be providing in helping guide an investor into how to get this business set up for the most success. Yeah. And I always felt like you guys package that really well.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Yeah, I I mean to a degree, you're it's it's a symbiotic relationship, right? Manufacturer and it's not just washers and dryers that distributors represent. There's a multitude of ancillary products, of you know, different services. I mean, they got to rely on on service vans, they have to rely on you know uh their own um uh uh management systems to manage inventory. Um parts, I mean, we're meant to be a layered process in parts and availability and quick access and you know from you know call and and and service requests. I mean, sometimes your your call log gets out two, three, four days and people are screaming that it's not immediate. Why aren't you here today? So, I mean, all those map management elements on the local application location sense of our business, we've been compared, and there are similarities to the automotive industry. Okay, why aren't there multiple distributors in every market? One, everybody drives a car, right? Everybody that's legally of age drives a vehicle. Ours is a micro business compared to automotive. You can also drive a vehicle or tow a vehicle, you know, to be serviced. So it's it's that mobility that is the difference because we sell a fixture. And that is lost on many people not understanding that, you know, there is a vast, usually geography, um, that a distributor must service. And that's one of the responsibilities of a good distributor is understanding their infrastructure and their abilities from a geographical standpoint in what they can reasonably service in the amount of time and and with the you know, again, back to the human resource of training, and you're gonna get somebody who is qualified for that call through the dispatch and out in a timely manner. That's all key, along with parts.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Yeah, right. And you know, and some of the changes that we're seeing in distribution, and I and Continental went through a change fairly recently too, and I'd love to take a moment to just kind of touch on is one is we're seeing this kind of consolidation of things happening. And I think for us who've been in the business, we understand why it's been happening to some degree. And and and you know, I think for the most part, uh some of these great distributors for all these years have done a great job. Not all of them have been fortunate enough to have maybe family members or just key players that want to continue uh that business. Uh-huh. And it's made some of the manufacturers maybe a little bit nervous about how how how those channels are going to continue to produce and provide the service that they're looking for. Um is there anything else that you think that has been happening that's kind of caused all this consolidation and even, you know, what where do you think, where do you guys think about it when you see this?

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Yeah, distributorships are um they're tough to run, right? And historically they're tough to evaluate because you know they're synonymous with a brand. I will tell you from my manufacturer's perspective, you can have the best equipment in the world with poor distribution in a local market. Your brand and your equipment will never advance. With a powerful distributor or even a above-average distributor, a mediocre or or poor machine can advance only through that distributor services and their I mean their undying will to make the customer successful. So they will cover up many of the um negatives of a of a of a piece of equipment. And I've represented and worked for now two manufacturers in the in the business, and I have been a part of many bad new product introductions, and and it happens to them all. Um it's not, you know, it's not brand specific. So you said it earlier. I mean, I mean they're they're machines and they're duty machines, and so there's different things that happen, and I'm not pushing it off to utilities or installation, but those are so key in the success or failure of many machines, and it's it's overlooked many times. Um they just expect to plug and and play, and they're gonna win every time. They just they just don't. But the distributors are there to cover up many of the manufacturers' um you know inadequacies. And until you get many machines and new introductions or not out in the market and see how they're used, um, you don't run into you cannot foresee a lot of the the you know complexities of operational use. Some of the machines are used 24-7, and that is not an overstatement. Not exaggerating. Uh many applications. I mean, we have them in dairy farms. We just talked about health clubs. There's another one. Many of these health clubs are open 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and laundry stores through nonstop, and it's it's hot cycles, they're many times I don't want to say overloaded. We like we like a healthy load in washers, but then the dryer sees the same duty, and they're hot cycles every time, they're just pushing towels out through. And those are some of the toughest duties in dairy farms and and in health clubs that we'll see. And many times that'll draw forward things that you wouldn't see in normal application use three, four, five years, and all of a sudden it shows up in one of those two applications, and we can now cast that out and say, Hey, look out for this or make this. Improvement or adjustment to the machine now.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

So and you you you talked about the deficiencies that that maybe a manufacturer might have and the distributor kind of kind of bridging some of those gaps. And I it's actually kind of funny because the truth is is like nobody wants to read the book of like how to properly put these equipment in. And that's kind of the distributor's job is to have known what's in the book and then using real-world experiences to say, well, yeah, we're gonna do that, but we're also gonna do this, and we're gonna make sure you're sized right because in three years, when you come back to me, when you've completely worn out this equipment, we're gonna size this right for you now, instead of you making a mistake. And that's something you can't get that from shopping online, you know, reading reading the brochure.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Yeah, that's uh that's a huge responsibility. Again, uh many things that come out of my mouth are not original thoughts uh or ideas. I've learned them from the market, and uh and one key thing, no matter if you're uh on-premise laundry, industrial laundry, vended laundry, dry cleaner, is where are you today in this purchasing decision where and where do you want to be? It is key because do not make that capital purchase of a of a fixture that should be have duty life of 10, 12, you know, 15 years or more. There's many more older uh legacy machines in the market. Um, but you have to think forward because that's not just uh that's not a throwaway piece of equipment. So we have to look forward into where you are today and the maybe the goals or the services or cycles you're running, and and what are you chasing after, right? So that's what do you foresee in your future too? Yeah, no, that's good stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Um let's let's shift gears a little bit because I think something that you and I have been able to spend a lot of time in uh over the over past many years is just kind of the relationship between Continental and CCI. And we have worked closely on interfacing our our mutual products together. You guys have had multiple controls come out over the years. We've been interfacing with all those controls. We've been super, super fortunate to have a great working relationship with your team and building, I think, just the best uh interfaces between two products that I think really exist on the market. And, you know, and again, uh you know, to to uh you know to to lift Continental a little bit here is that I think that it's it's produced a product, a mutual product, a combined product that is just better, you know, than that that's out there. And you know, uh, you know, not not to say that the other interfaces and the other machines aren't don't have their benefits and so forth, but Continental and CCI really work well together. And I think it's because you and I want it to work together. We really want it to work together, and there's really a lot to that.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Yeah, and and look, whether it's it's your features and benefits that you design or it's it's mine on the on the washer or dryer side, um, in the end, you're building out all those value propositions and features for an end-user customer that is gonna benefit in some way because their customers like it. It's got retention quality. What whatever. There's lots of different discussions there. But they got to work together. So if all of a sudden, you know, you plug into one of my machines and we're not maximizing the capabilities through the integration or lack of integration with your CCI system, and there's a number of options, um then I haven't delivered on my side of the relationship, right? Yeah, same thing with with you, and you mentioned something that is not funny, um, and that is how fast the today, you know, the operating systems of today's controls are are moving, right? And that can drive you crazy as a as a third-party, you know, very, very important ancillary to the profit scenario and management of stores, for example. Um, and these these growing uh business models that we're seeing inside of what used to be a self-service vended business is now a multi-level service uh laundry operation. Whether you call it garment care or uh you know uh laundry specialty, whatever you want to, whatever you want to be, our enterprise is a heck of a lot different than it was even 10 years ago. And so that integration you bring up, and I I chuckle about our history because in the beginning, you know, we're pulsing for quarter drops, right? We're getting quarter drops. And then I remember the day you called me and said, Do you know what you have here? Like, well, Steve, you gotta you gotta put some words to that question because I I don't where are you going with it? And you're the one who really told me it wasn't our RD department, it was not engineering. Um you told me that we have a serial interface that you think you can do something with, and that's gonna blow up these this symbiotic interface integration between our two systems, and here's how. And so that's kind of where that leap of faith. I don't remember if that was 2006 or 7, but somewhere in that time frame, and we were leading the industry. We were really the first ones to take that integration, and I mean you went above and beyond with really um programming interface, and you made our machine better. And I mean, I I'll never forget that. And obviously, it helped our relationship, not that it needed help, but it advanced it so much faster. Sure. And um, that was all thanks to an open communication and you discovering something I probably wouldn't have for years, unless somebody told me.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Well, I appreciate that. And and you know, I think but again, it comes back to it starts with us both wanting this to be better and wanting it to work and finding the opportunities that we can make them work better together. And then we both kind of win, you know, at the end of the day. You get to sell machines, we get to provide a payment solution, and even better, the the the solution that come together helps that store owner, that investor, be that much uh be set up better for success at the end of the day because you know as well as I do uh the a successful store owner is gonna do number two, they're gonna do number three, and we have more multi-store owners, you guys have more multi-store owners, and you know, it's just an amazing uh place to get someone started and then to find them five or six doors later. Um yeah, you know, I think uh what I'd like to see, what I you know, I I'd like to talk about this interface a little bit. You know, you guys have uh your your latest control, it's not new, you guys have had it for a number of years. I remembered a few clean shows ago, the genius control. It's it's the biggest touch screen I think on on a machine ever that I've ever seen. I don't think I've seen one bigger than that. So it's a beautiful user experience that uh you know really guides the customer through that. And I think uh one of the things that um we've recently done together, I think it's worth mentioning, is uh the chemical delivery layer of it. You know, and um it was a it was a big lift for us. It was like, you know, if we I always I think I've told you this before, and and certainly my developer gives me a really hard time about this, our engineer is this idea is if you had told me that you wanted to do this 15 years ago, we would have built things differently. So so we end up having to um make things work, but I think we've done a really good job of it. And so tell me about what what brought on this kind of chemical delivery selection thing. You could probably you know do a better job of kind of describing what it is and and how it's beneficial to stores.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah, I'll I'll go back a little bit. Uh again, I'm uh I'll I'll reinforce its ear to the market. And and it was that launch of the genius, and it was that clean show. And one of the primary requests, once they saw the machine and they saw the user interface and the navigation we wanted to eliminate through that big screen scrolling because we know that's kind of lost. Um, you'll lose a customer at the point of sale. So, I mean, we're checking all these boxes. We launched this, and at that clean show, the number one request was I really want to auto-dose or auto-deliver chemistry to my self-service customer. I'm gonna use it for my wash-dry fold, growing wash-dry fold and commercial work, but I love the idea of being able to sell chemistry, you know, detergents and brighteners and and softeners on a menu from the machine. Yeah, yeah. And so we had done that, if you remember. I mean, and it was an all or nothing. It was called Express Boundary Centers. It was a little vestibule. Uh we had a canopy design to go over the top, and we were doing uh uh wash cycle and obviously extraction and and automatic delivery of chemistry back in the 90s, and you installed a number of them, you and and uh Dion, um, in the Chicago area um to a lot of your investors because it was something to elevate their store and make a unique service. And we were trying to appeal at the time to the young professional that didn't really view themselves as a laundromat owner, and we we coined the phrase when time is of the essence. So again, it was just one more marketing thing that you could you could not be a Me Too store again. And so we we've been able to deliver, obviously, with our roots being in uh professional on-premise and industrial laundry. This was not a giant leap. So after this feedback from 22, um, we ran with it. Um a few of the things that were lagging was one, the multi-machine delivery systems, you might know them as pumps. Um and so that was that was missing. While we'd been, you know, gang central uh chemistry delivery and industrial laundry for years. These are systems, delivery systems that are air and sometimes um water assisted with a central manifold, and then they'd on the call they'd deliver it to a very remote machine or a tunnel system or a 250-pound OP washer. So the leap was not great. The technology was there, but it was packaging it down into a size. You know, these would occupy entire rooms. Um it was size, it was multi-unit delivery and accurate what the industry would call microdosing, meaning maybe it was an ounce or two of product, and it was when it was called, okay, literally snapping my fingers because the customer is standing there, they've chosen this chemistry, and they are looking for delivery, right? So those are the hurdles that had to be overcome. The industry was starting down that path, and now we find ourselves today in 26, and the development has really uh been fast laned. Um, there are multiple delivery systems that can support you know, some seven up to 10 or more machines, and they're looking at you know multiple types of chemistry because customers don't want just one selection, they want multiple. And then what you're speaking to, it parlays into now blowing up that vending option that really broke the ceiling that was created, you know, way back you said 15 years ago. I mean, in 15 years, you had base cycles. Maybe it was a machine that could support eight base cycles, but then we had extras and combinations of extras, and now we're gonna offer you know cleaning product menus. So, I mean, you can speak to that, but that's what sort of hit that that glass ceiling and was part of that integration. I don't want to say delay. I mean, all the things are just now coming together. So your your delivery was timely, but it was something I said we're not the only ones. I want this for the industry because there's a ton of benefits for store and customer, and we're all trying to have revenue builders. You're in the middle of that. Revenue building is key to you know the growth of our industry. So I'll shut up and integration.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

It you know, the the chemical delivery part of it in and getting the technology, I think, has been kind of catching up to what we need for all the machines in our laundry um is is there, and you guys have been figuring out how to make sure that the machines could call for it right and all of that. Uh from the payment system side, for me, anything that allows us to offer the the retail customer an upgrade, an up, an upcharge is so valuable to the laundromat business. And when we're selling the laundry equipment or selling the laundry solution, to be able to take a performa, and you've done plenty of performas, have looked at plenty of performas and and look at one that just has static pricing across the board, but then go back and compare it to one that even just offers an extra rinse or an extra spin for with the margins just are tremendously large. And I think now when we so that was huge, and we've known that for a long time. That's why we all started the serial interfaces. The fact that now we're going apart and offering another layer of an upcharge, another value add. And we all know that we're gonna deliver the right amount of detergents, the right amount of softeners and brighteners and all of that stuff that's gonna ultimately give the we know the customers get a better they're gonna get a better service out of the machine because it's all gonna be dosed correctly, and they're gonna get charged appropriately for it. Store owner has a better opportunity, the machine's making more money, just the value add is just it's got such upside potential. It has no downside as far as I'm concerned.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Yeah, and I mean a lot of that value add is still being developed, but you think about um let's look at our self-service customer, right? Budgets matter. We're we're proposing in most store applications a value proposition, right? Yeah, we are more affordable, we're more timely. I mean, those are the those are the value props that we put forward for years. And now if you can help them avoid prepaying for a $20, $25 jug of of chemistry, uh detergent, right? And then obviously they they all have their favorite, you know, color safe bleach, or they've got their favorite softener, and and you know, that's very, very specific to demographic and season. We've learned that through uh years of of auto injection. Um so that prepay keeps the money in their pocket. They're only now going to buy it at the time they want to use it, and you can even propose a value proposition because it's precisely you know uh sequenced for the load size. And we're even working on automatic adjustment for water levels based on load reads. I mean, those are some of the things that have multiple levels of impact and value. Um, you know, for the store owner, think of the spill, slip fall, over sudsing.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Um, I hadn't even thought about that. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Think of the garbage that accumulates, and that all relates back to labor cost managing that store, you know, attended or unattended, because you know, you've already satisfied the need for three or four visits a week to collect. Um, you know, now we're also removing some of that that regular duty for maintenance and cleanups and oversudsing. And so that's part of it. The other part, I'm gonna leap into another industry. Once we control, and our approach to this is a hybrid taught by you, the the payment solution providers, right? When it was coin or card, you get some resistance. When you introduce hybrid, all of a sudden acceptance goes up. Yeah, acceptance is uh off the charts. I'm not sure I'm I'm within one or two percent of the stores today that don't have an alternative payment system of some kind. Um, we learned that lesson and we adapted the same thing to this automatic injection. Okay, we call it Genius Express Clean. Uh there is a menu, they can choose to use their products, they can choose to use the store products or a combination of both. And in our early pilots, our acceptance, if you look back to the extras, right? We used to be thrilled with if they choose an extra in their cycle to revenue build at 25, you know, 28% was great for machines, you know, smaller capacity, 30 and below. And if we hit or exceeded 40% in the larger machines, that's where we saw the frequency. We were thrilled. We're seeing 70% acceptance in the pilot installs that we're using at least one product offered, and then the habits we're seeing is the next time they're leaving their products at home, or once they use their gallon jug that they prepaid for, they're leaving it at home and they're using all the product options that they choose for that cycle.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

So that kind of leaning hard into the convenience side of of laundromats all together. I mean, think about I have I told you, you know, this has been years now, but when we started accepting credit cards for the first time, because we've been around long enough that we were cash only in the early days, we didn't we weren't even accepting credit cards uh you know, you know, almost 30 years ago in stores. But when we started offering credit cards in store, the customers that started to expect that they could use their credit card is amazing. And and nowadays, I mean particularly nowadays, if you're having an outage, you know, you're let's say your internet is offline or you've got any some kind of offline event that's preventing your credit cards from going through, it's almost like uh it's an amazing, it's an expectation that we never had, and and it's a change of habit, you know, and in the convenience about using that, and I see this uh perfectly aligning with the same thing. People ex they're gonna expect that the detergents and the chemicals can be auto-injected. So I don't have to do that. It's a brilliant, brilliant next uh generation for laundries.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Yeah, the the one store in particular, um, it's right down the street. It's a company store. We use it for testing and validation, and we started out with our largest, you're familiar with it. Um our largest uh island, it was 80s and uh and a 90-pound um all high-speed machines. And so we installed this auto injection and the menus on this firmware upgrade as a pilot there, and the customers, once they got their head around what their options and their benefits were, they were the ones demanding first inquisitive, then demanding. They associated the screen on the GS, the genius screen, they associated that with this auto um injection and and cleaning product menu. And they said, why don't we have it on the other menu?

SPEAKER_00 40:44

The others.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

So we're scrambling to add delivery systems, the right amount of chemistry. They want options too, so we're building options for each of the different products that we're we have as menu options. Um and so that's all been part of our, I guess, sequence of learning. Um, and again, the customer expectation, they're asking for it now.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

So we can't ask for anything more than that. You know, they're they're telling you where to go next. So you have no you don't have to make any decisions other than when to pull the trigger. So kudos. That's that's like I love the fact that you guys have uh that you've always leveraged that store, you know, down the road. I've been there a number of times myself to be able to, you know, test these things out and get real-world examples rather than everything being anecdotal from what you hear from other folks. So being able to see it firsthand definitely comes across as a um just a more genuine uh ability to validate what what you've been promoting.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

It's good for our industry. Uh it is very good.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Yeah. Um, you know, I I'd love to hear a little bit um about what do you think's next? I mean, what is what's the next what's next in this? Pull out the pull out your crystal ball and tell and tell me what you think is next for vended. I know there's as you guys deal in a lot of you know commercial and OPL and other things, industrial stuff, but let's focus on vended. What do you what do you think is gonna what do you think is happening in the industry? And you can go in any direction you want here. What's the next big thing for vended?

SPEAKER_01 42:10

I mean, I uh what our our previous subject really stole that biggest part of that show. It's that that that is a beast. I mean, it it's a come along with the the blurring of the lines. We're doing a lot more commercial work through our stores today. Um, you know, we're designing stores around the anticipation of commercial and growing wash drifold is a huge part of our revenue stream uh in stores. So, I mean, looking forward, we're gonna continue to be better at design. Um, you know, I look at ozone injection. There's an expectation in many markets that they've got sanitizing or an ozone option as part of their cycle selection or their overall, you know, every time a cold water valve opens up, there's gonna be ozonated water that that is delivered. So it's that customer element. Um, it certainly is the different you know, revenues around wash dry fold and pickup and delivery is a big part of that. So, you know, you're in involved in integrations with POS systems and equipment today. Um, and and really the the building of these multi um layered stores that are ready, it goes back to that where are you today and where do you want to be? We're designing around those aspects now. Um you know, I mean, what's the biggest need in our industry? Locations.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

That's not gonna go away.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

No, no, it's not. And you know, that's I've been in many, whether it's a panel discussion or forums, and I'm gonna shutter my laundromat and I'm gonna turn it into a commercial plant. Great, but if you get the fundamentals of a location with the egress and visibility, and you got the right utilities, I mean that is an asset that has intrinsic value for. What it was designed for, self-service and full service, I fold, pickup and delivery, whatever you want to turn it into. And but we're seeing a lot of that discussion because there's a need in the market for alternatives to a consolidation that's been happening for 30 years in industrial laundry. So that, along with obviously the Airbnb, that service industry produces dirty textiles. So they're looking for services, and many times they're soliciting stores to do their work. I mean, there's a multitude restoration work that used to go through dry cleaners. Dry cleaners are not today doing the traditional counterwork of formal wear. Look at us today. I mean, I'm casual. We talked about it. So I mean, those they have been happening. They're gonna continue to happen. I would say that what is coming in the next few years, along with this auto injection, um, will be um more automation, more operational control, things we've always looked at in industrial and on-premise laundry, um, because there's a labor factor there, right? Yeah. Um, so that's one. The other thing I see coming, if we can control what goes in from a chemical standpoint, another reason I I see this auto-dosing, and as we adapt and and get our customers to to demand and want that, our revenue grows, but we're also controlling aspects of uh the affluent water and what we might be able to do as an industry to catch up to where industrial laundry has been for years, and that's reclamation systems.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Yeah, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Yeah, you know, you've run into it. I mean, there are there are uh tap-in fees, otherwise known as impact fees, all over this country. It's another tax. Um, and I won't get into that, but I mean some municipalities are basically blocking any reasonable pro forma from from um from a laundromat, a prospective laundromat, because the the tap-in fees are so oppressive. So reclamation would mitigate that. Okay, the other thing is the rise in utilities. I mean, we've always gone after utilities because it's been 30 to 30 uh you know 25 to 30 percent of every dollar spent in a laundry has historically been committed to utilities. So if I can impact that and cut the utility cost in half through performance equipment, um that has value. And so this reclaim of not only water, but also scrubbing BTUs out of drain water, um, scrubbing BTUs out of vent uh pipes, and then reusing and purposing that energy is gonna help reduce and control either spikes or just this continued trend in utility increase. So that's not possible with customers choosing what they what and how much they put into each load. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Yeah, yeah, amazing. Well, well, Joel, this is um, you know, it's exactly what I was hoping for, just uh tons of information. I'm gonna have to go back and relisten to this a few times just to catch up on everything that we went through here. But um it's amazing what you guys have done um and and thinking ahead. I think you guys are well positioned for the next generation of this industry. Um, you guys have done a lot to promote it, to um to really help people um find their way into that, and you've been amazing with the distribution network that you guys have built. So uh thank you for that. Um thank you for being a part of the podcast today. This has been a great, great opportunity. You know, it's a new thing for me to put this on, and one of the things that I've been asking my guests is that I think as this uh as this progresses to to have more specific topics that I think you would be able to come back and join me and have very specific discussions about things that I think will have even more impact on um on the folks that are listening. So um thank you so much and I appreciate you sharing.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Appreciate it. Uh we're all pretty blessed that you've been you know we've been around each other and enjoyed this this industry for many, many years and the the wonderful people in it. So thanks so much for the conversation.